Holly Herndon: Fighting Automation with Artificial Intelligence

How you would describe what you do?

I'm a computer musician.

What does that mean?

Well, that's always what comes next. I am a composer, and I'm a performer. My primary instrument is the computer.

What were the formative experiences in becoming the musician you are today?

Well, my introduction to musical performance was through choirs, often in a liturgical setting – in church, in this emotional ecstasy that one has in the religious singing experience. Another introduction would be coming to Berlin as a teenager and hearing Eurodance in the supermarket; also the crazy, synthetic pop music that was popular here. It's like a geographical point. Another one would be moving to Oakland, going to Mills [College], and starting to use a computer in a way that I had more control over. That's the trajectory.

What led you to Mills?

I was already writing music. I went to some master classes here [in Berlin]. I took some free improvisation with [vocalist] Lauren Newton. I was trying to teach my way through some things. I had downloaded SuperCollider [a real-time audio synthesis programming language] and was trying to figure it out without any community. That is hard to do if you are coming at it blind, without any reference point. There was already a deep interest, and I was trying to figure things out myself. I figured that if I wanted to take things to the next level technically, I needed to retool. So, I decided to go to Mills.

SuperCollider was the first music-making software you interfaced with?

It was, and it wasn't what I ended up using. I ended up using Max [Max/MSP/Jitter; a visual programming language for music]. It's random. At Mills, one semester they would teach Max, and one semester they would teach SuperCollider. I happened to start on the semester they were teaching Max. That's the only reason. It's actually probably better that way, because it's visual. Actually, I was in the beta testing of Max for [Ableton] Live at the time, when I was first getting started.

Around what years?

I was at Mills from 2008 to 2010. This always happens to people when they first start to use Max: I was building this complicated, insane, disgusting patch that I'd never use again. But that's part of doing it; to learn how it works. I was building this stupid performance system that was super complicated. I spent forever on it, and then the Max for [Ableton] Live beta came out and answered everything. All of a sudden it was so much easier to do all the things I wanted to do, because I could just put individual Max patches on individual audio tracks - things that were difficult to code if you were just starting with an empty Max patch. That was a massive self-own; but it was also good, because I had to learn how to do all that. Now I have the stability of this DAW [Ableton Live] but with the flexibility of all this weirdness I want to do [Max For Live]. That then became a powerful performance tool.

I know those messy Max patches. When I was in school, I was doing the same thing. It was like, "If only there were something else!"

Then that something else came. I think a lot of people had that moment. A lot of people who didn't know what Max was bought Ableton Live, and they found out about [Max] through [Live]. Then they got into programming. That's cool that it introduced people on that level. So, then I started writing Movement [her first album] towards the end of Mills, and after Mills. Movement came out right when I started at Stanford [University]. I had no expectation that anyone would care about it at all. It was just this weird thing I made and thought was cool; then somebody wanted to put out. Then, "Oh, you're invited to play this festival." That was exciting, but...